Whereas a growing number of our active club members own foreign sports cars other than British, it is proposed that the name of our club be changed to reflect that:
Fredericton Area British/Foreign Automobile Club
Your comments are encouraged–pro or con.
22 comments:
so why not just call it FAFAC instead of FABFAC?
I guess I have to be careful in what is stated... since I was not part of the original few who formulated FABAC's enjoyment for others to follow. Originally from what I can understand is in 2001 the theme was British classic cars ranging from Morgans to ADO 14's and 16's, Triumphs and Jag's to list a few.
To get together, share tales of red line 65 mph break neck speeds down NB darkened roads because of Dr. Lucas's grand illusion of electronics. share tips on how that SU carb should come apart in one piece with a 1 inch spanner and a rubber mallet.
Oh and the on lookers who come up to you and ask - what the heck is this, I've never seen one before, or wow what year is this baby - she sure is nice. How much work did you have to do to get it to this condition? Where did you get it? How many are there of this car left in NB or even Canada.
The uniqueness of the cars and their owners are what intrested myself in the club. We put as much money and time into their cars as their budgets permit. Dropping the spanner and burning arms on exhaust pipes reaching for the washer which fell into the size smaller than a penny is not uncommon. Making things work because parts are no longer available due to the uniqueness of the car means down times. Trying to find the one piece of missing chrome for a fender taking 8 years and 5 countries is both rewarding and taxing. Those who have unique cars know this.
We have lost some members - good people - because they cannot afford to run their cars and stay in hotels. A few have as one person stated to me stayed away (better invested their time) because they felt their car was out of place amongst the mega thousand dollar 2005, 06, 07, 08's. That if people wanted to see such cars they could go to any used/new car lot in NB or NS and take their pick.
I spoke with individuals last Christmas who stated they just purchased a car. I was expecting a classic, not one which needed a 200,000 shop computer to tell the certified mechanic that the cars fuel pump is not working or that the oil needs changing. Instantly for some reason I quivered at the thought that they would ask me what I drove and that I would have to tell them. when the question was asked and answered I got the question - "A what?" But it wasn't out of interest that I got the "a what" response. becasue wehn I attempted to offer my vehicles information it was as if the individual was on a mission to locate anyone else to talk common cars about. Now not everyone is like this - thank the lord. We have some very gr8 members - actually most of them are amazing personalities. it only takes someone with an attitude to turn people's tastes.
Interestingly a lot of people who attend car shows tell me that if they wanted to see a 70 thousand dollar 2 yr old sportster they would go to the dealership and cruise the lot. Their not unique there's thousands of them - everywhere.
Look at the cars we've started out with and those we've had join us along the way. picked up along the way. Look whom and what we've lost. Have you seen their cars lately? Classics are being stored, worked on, sitting idle, driving not in groups like ours but in single day trips. Why? I don't ahve all the answers?
But if a name change is contemplated why not FAFAC.
The British car is a foriegn make and the classics are becoming more of a minority what with every third world country buying up the names and businesses. Therefore I don't think it needs any special merit in distinction in the FABFAC title.
In looking at your club badge who would have know in its creation/inception that the Union Jack would actually be flying in distress?
The FABAC logo was revised some time ago as you can see on the home page. It was changed since no one seemed to detect the humour of a flag in distress--a condition most British cars experience from time to time. ;-)
"Who We Are ( or were )
Background: On February 22, 2001, a group of British car enthusiasts met at the O'Dell Park lodge to discuss the future of an organized group of some sort........ The consensus seemed to be that this would be a fun club, the emphasis on fun with the focus on touring and occasionally getting together to discuss British cars in some non-formal environment - members garages, O'Dell park, or even an occasional pub meet."
I agree with Anonymous #1.
The club seems to have drifted quit a way from the opening lines of the mission statment. Too few of the vehicles seen on club tours these days can do the same damage to one's butt as say, a Bug Eye Sprite on a 300-500 KM run. For those not familiar with little british cars, this is a very basic and hugely popular Austin Healey that has no creature comforts. Doesn't even have a boot lid ( that would be an opening trunk to some).
Events are usually much more suited to automobiles with such creature comforts as, heaters, air conditioners, side windows, power steering, working windshield wipers, and possibly even a watertight top.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
If the club is not a British Car Club then give it up, change the logo, and call it the Fredericton Area Foreign Automobile Club..... FAFAC.
Anonymous #2 is also correct.
You should fly the Jack in distress!
Bob Earl ruffles some feathers and replies to the first post.
That's one big chip on your shoulder Mr.Anonymous. Do you mind
if I try and whittle it down to size?
FABFAC is not just for folks that like to sand the needles
in their Stromberg carbs to make their car run 'just so'. It's
not just for cars that cost less than X amount of money or are
older than X years. It's for everybody.
Any group will change over time as the collective personalities
of the members steer the group in a certain direction, much like the hands of the players will push the pointer of an Ouigi board in one direction or another. Our group has evolved over the years to where the cars are less important and the members themselves more so. I believe that this is a very good thing. As much as I want to see a certain Morgan being driven (hint, hint David?), I'm more concerned with seeing the owners out at our gatherings. THEY, not their cars are what make this club such a success. At any function one can discuss fine art, music, engineering, horticulture, politics and yes, how to sand the needles of a Stromberg carb to make the engine
run 'just so'.
FABFAC is a vibrant group that doesn't take itself too seriously.
Camaraderie, a taste for good food, a sense of adventure and an appreciation of interesting cars has brought us together. I sincerely hope we stay that way.
Bob Earl.
Comments one and four are funny! I bet that newer Jags have heaters, side windows, air condioners and rooves that do not leak. I also bet that a rubber mallet and spanner are not the tools needed to tune these cars! I also bet that this Club does not have a Constitution, By-laws or Standing resolutions and this being the case the organizers can do as they please. I also think that anyone wanting to be anonymous should be disregarded.
Holy smokes!! All this from "Whereas a growing number of our active club members own foreign sports cars ... our club be changed to reflect that:
Fredericton Area British/Foreign Automobile Club"
To those who read this please understand that the opinions voiced in the forum are just that "OPINIONS." People asked for them and so they get them. People should be entitled to air them regardless of being identified or anonymous. That is unless that forum bans the individual and or blocks anonymous entries. This forum does neither!
The mere fact that some have voiced opinions to other members well after they have disappeared from club outings speaks volumes in itself - or at least I would think. Is there an acceptance issue from both sides - perhaps?
As bluntly stated earlier; why not change it to FAFAC?
Why should the Brits have any special place in the clubs title? If the response is simply "nostalgia" - then "let it go"
Bob has adequately covered the finer points of where we are now and one can always project an outlook.
Bob, there is no chip... no feathers to ruffle, we know that we have members who have gone their own way and that there will be more. How do we keep the members we have now and who do we want to recruit tomorrow is in the wind. Do we what the fallen members back? What happens when new members grow tired of the atmosphere and leave to search out another club to join because they are more funner than us?
Yes the FABAC or FABFAC (since both titles are more referenced on the web site)club has evolved as Bob identified. We seem to have become more of a high end import club with some British flag waving cars bringing up the midsection and rear. Maybe that was the reason for others departure - I don't have that answer.
Yes the club as said "is for everyone." So being the fly in the ointment why do we not see the local Sky's, and Honda convertables or the 2 Ferraris at our outings? Lets recruit them!! We're fun to be with and they could be too?
The club get togethers are fun to be at - especially when its not drowning the participants inside their classic cars as on the Camden ME run a couple yrs ago. (Vic - something new cars sometimes expereince as well with defective seals)
I personally know of a few teenagers with multi coloured (primer and paint combo's) 1992 through 2001 Honda civics with soup can mufflers and ear drum shattering sound systems who would run their cars beside a roadster and some old British stiff upper lipped cars at a couple of our outings.
Whats stopping them?
Perhaps the Dreaded "A" word - Acceptance. I would hope that the majority of people in our club today would be open minded - legitimately! The majority are once again GR8 people. But remember all it takes is one and the +ve atmosphere is lost (or rather maybe protected when they fail to return to the second outing.)
At a local car show 2 years ago, when I was the only classic British car on the field of over 100 cars, I spoke with several young car owners with carbon fiber hoods and 15 to 20 thousand dollars invested in the vehicle's paint and tires alone, asking them of what old guys like me in general thought of their efforts. Some were mixed with "we are the antique cars of tomorrow - today but not everyone sees what we are doing or accepts us...." Therefore real or merely perceived the atmosphere is easily tainted.
Commonalities keep famlies together longer.
Bob you, much like myself enjoy working on our own cars because it brings a sense of pride and accomplishment to the field. Especially when we get it right - and blood shed free to boot. One common theme that Barrett and Jackson style collector cars and recent showroom released vehicles can't ever share with us. The "I drive my Concours car when its between 72 and 74 degrees, pull under an overpass when it looks like rain and take it to a specialized mechanic when it reaches 5,000 kms for its regular tune up is a great common topic to share." ref PEI jag. So is I drink Bud and you drink Bordeaux. We as a group can't even agree to disagree on where to eat most times lol. We all have different tastes no pun intended.
But there must have been and continnue to be common threads which formed the basis of the original dream. one was British cars which are now a distant number comparable to the general population of cars.
I know that not everyone is interested in what I or you drive Bob. Thats why people by Hummers, American muscle cars, Model A's and T's, MGB's Honda civics, Mazda Miata etc.
One question raised to me was "why did all the great people who purchased non British roadsters not get together and create their own club?"
And the answer you most likely will respond with is that our group is more enjoyable to be with on feasts and outings. UNQUESTIONABLY!
And a fair response to that may be - the majority of the owners of the same cars above could be co- members in their own club still the same fun to be with people but a seperate collection base) who in turn could invite other specific clubs to join in celebrations of being an automobile enthusiast.
Currently to see the Fredericton Area British Automobile Club at an outing with more German engineered cars less than 3 or 4 years old leaves onlookers bewildered as to why we call ourselves what we do.
Thus the proposed name change....
Imagine the Corvette car club of Fredericton changing their name to accomidate Camero's, Mustangs, and Dodge Darts. Can't see it happening.
And to Vic thanks for your comments.
I tend to agree with some of your points. The club may not have a formal Constitution or anything else for that matter. It can do what it wants to and doesn't need to ask for a second reading or all in favor say "I". FABAC started with a small group of British car lovers in a small town park willing to share information, trials and a supper with friends.
Vic can you imagine driving a classic British car to a location with a group of club drivers who are lite speed in front of you, because your car was designed as a daily city commuter not a highway roadster. FUN with a capiutal "F" Or how about this: Bob and I have both stopped to assist fellow British car owners on the side of the highways broken down and laughed with them at their misfortune all the while sharing our own stories and knowing it may be us once road worthy again around the next corner. I've even conducted surgery on a Bug eye and an MGB with my extensive tool kit carried in my 69 America. Meanwhile others have passed for their own unknown reasons while we've burned knuckles on pipes, cralled under rear ends as transports whipped the vehicle above side to side with their size.
I do however disagree with you Vic that not signing one's name to an opinion does not make the points any less valid and should be discounted.
As a proud Canadian (assuming you are) you of all people must be aware of this, whereas casting votes for politial leaders without your name is one such case.
Making uneducated comments and signing a name to it works in the reverse direction.
Point in case:
Have you worked on a classic British car? Do you even know what a spanner is? (British term for a wrench.) Sometimes its not what people say taht s important its what they don't.
In conclusion... I'm sure that the numbers of none British car owners out number the ones who do and if a vote for a name change is needed.
FAFAC has mine.
Why segrate the British car in title if it is no longer a priority in the car club.
EARL SHARPE
I am confused. At the meeting on Wednesday, August 20, it seemed abundantly clear, that input from “club” members regarding a name change, was neither desired nor accepted. I left the meeting with the understanding that “FABAC” no longer existed, even in name. At this point, what is the purpose of “We would like to hear from you”?
And to “Vic”, I agree with Earl, “Anonymous” is an essential element of our Canadian democratic system, and seems to me there may even be a Constitution involved. Karen Johnston
I understand your confusion, Karen. After the meeting, clearer minds suggested to me that perhaps we should put the topic "on the agenda next month to have more discussion". I suggested the idea of opening up the discussion through our web site since it allowed both anonymous and registered comments. Since that was seen as an "appropriate approach", here's an opportunity for anyone/everyone to voice their opinions.
Suggestion:
Formulate a combined group with combined interests... but with different badges.
FABAC Fredericton Area British Automobile Club remains intact for those who wish to set up on car shows and fields, city streets with their LBC's - you know Mini's, Not a Mini (AA), MGA through the last letter being used today, Triumphs, Morgans X 2, Lotus, Bugeyes, Sunbeams and any of the unique British cars wishing to pull up in the mix.
FAFAC Fredericton area Foriegn Automobile Club is created beside FABAC, as its newest sibling. On car show fields, city streets these jewels can be collectively parked together for on lookers to admire and dream about.
There is nothing more appealing to see a group of cars lined door to door or bumper to bumper such as in the REXTON show where there are 15 to 20 British vehicles one after another. Same works for any other group.
And then again there is nothing which destroys that appealing effect as seeing these same cars with a random insert of another automobile. Usually its cousin Clems rusted out 73 Pinto or a Mud truck from the back woods of wherever.
For members who have both, what a quandary.
In wet weather???
hint hint.....
Drive the new car - it has creature comforts.
Both sub clubs carry on as we have been - both with different interests in cars since that is only one portion of whom we are. Both coming together to hold celebrations such as our annual Christmas feast, occassional runs and shows shich will permit ALL these fine cars on the field.
No one needs to be offended nor aborted.
A reinvention of the wheel is not needed nor desired.
Just re-balance it!!!
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2).....
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
Marcus Aurelius
Roman emperor and stoic philosopher
121-180 A.D.
We all know that our club name 'FABAC' has worked well in the past, and other car clubs have always known us by this name.
In my opinion, our club is more about the members, comradery, fun and good humour that lightens our lives for a pleasant change now and then. Let's not destroy this fellowship!
I really hope this name change issue can chill out for a while before it gets too serious and we lose good members.
I hope we will continue to refer to our club as 'FABAC' regardless of what a few other members want to call it, or whatever foreign make they show up in at our meetings and functions.
Having this open input on the web is a great idea; however, may I suggest that in the future any important issues regarding our club be discussed by the members who show up regularly at our gatherings. And...let the majority rule with their vote!
A name is all about branding and the FABAC name is well recognized within the Atlantic region. I am relatively new to this car club and car show interest and still like British car show venues. When I attend a show I am pleased to say we are with the FABAC group and get instant recognition of who we are regardless if we as individuals are known to other participants or not. This is not absolutely necessary of course but nice to be recognized by other British car enthusists by which British car club you belong to as opposed to who you are.
This is a very simple perk which I happen to enjoy and hope it can remain in place.
Regardless of the name, we have all enjoyed the fellowship together with our outings, dinner sittings,and general social gatherings.
Can this be any made any better through a name change?
Curry Alders
I've been reading and pondering these entries and here's my two cents worth.
First of all I was at this famous meeting and do not feel it was the intention to spontaniously change the culture of our club. We just did what we do best Get to Gether - Eat - Drink - Chat - well you get picture.
I guess this discussion came up. Not to say it was right or wrong it just came up. I don't think anyone expected WW3 to break out over it and I think when we look back I think It may not of been the greatest of plans. That's what we do best just come up whith stuff.
However I'm certain that this matter will work itself out in a fair and civilized maner as that is what our club is about. It's not about a name or a car (no mater what make, year or even the cost) It's about the people and the fun we have when we get get together. I think no mater what we should always rememder that first.
I'll be honest, when Bob first told me about the club I thought to myself; "great a bunch of stuffed shirts with fancy cars isn't this going to be fun" . I soon learned ( and it only took one meeting) that I was dead wrong and found myself not only welcomed but had a great time and couldn't wait until the next meeting. I've had a blast ever since.
I'd just like to add that we should all remember, and I'm certain that those of us who attend regurlarly do (when we can of course) that we have a great time no matter what car we're driving.
I know I'm not half the writer my better half is but I hope all this makes sense and remember what we're all about.
Dianne
I am quite disappointed to learn of the movement afoot to change the name of the group from FABAC. As a founding member of the club I take pride in the initial concept which was the preservation and promotion of LBCs through fellowship and activities. I have always warmly welcomed anyone who may not have owned a British car but wanted to participate in our events and we have made several wonderful friendships this way which we treasure. However, I do not believe this is reason to change the original idea and mission of the club which was to celebrate and cherish the preservation and knowledge of these” VANISHING VEHICLES” from
“MERRY OLDE ENGLAND “. I have a question? Where did this request originate from or is this someone's private agenda? I have received 5 phone calls from long time members who expressed their concern and disappointment over the direction this is taking. One of them suggested this idea was being RAMRODDED through with nothing more than a quick show of hands and no regard for the original members! They wish to remain anonymous but unfortunately SILENCE implies COMPLIENCE and I for one will not be SILENT ! I vote NO !!! I took the liberty of calling friends with BATANS and the P.E.I club, (I belong to both) and discussed the situation with them. They both vehemently warned against diluting the BRITISH flavour of what is regarded as a very respected group of LBC owners in Fredericton, N.B. We would become just another innocuous car club with the spectre of a YUGO vehicle qualifying for membership under the broad banner of simply being FOREIGN ! Regretfully, I have been unable to attend many of the club activities this summer due to illness so maybe I have missed much of the dialogue (If indeed there was much). However, I am recovering well and look forward to returning to driving my BRITISH CARS longer distances in the near future.
In summary, I think it would be fair to say that Lorraine and I have done as much as anyone to foster and support the activities and growth of FABAC since it's inception and have enjoyed endless hours of conversation and banter revolving around the central core of all things BRISTISH, especially the cars. We hope to continue to do so !!!!.... RULE BRITANNIA !!!!
Jim & Lorraine Woodford
A little background on why I made the proposal for a new name at our last meeting. You may recall that several meetings ago we decided to go ahead with making a couple of portable signs that could be used whenever our club cars were parked together--whether that be outside a restaurant, at Freddie Beach on Thurs., etc.. People often wonder as they wander by our cars, "Who are these guys?" The quandary is that in setting up signs that indicate that these are "British" cars, we are inviting confusion or false assumptions by those unfamiliar with different manufacturers. So, one wonders just what the signs should say. I thought that a combination of a gesture of inclusion and a name that reflected our roots might do the job.
After making the proposal at the meeting, we had our usual quips from myself and the floor, with suggestions for other names. I waved them off with the suggestion of no further discussion quite intentionally. If we had discussed it and voted on that or some other name, we could easily have ended up with something the greater group might not like. As it stands, and as I said in my prefacing remarks at the meeting, "I have a serious proposal to make."
A few days ago I learned that the signs had already be made, so really, the issue has gone away as far as I am concerned.
The healthy thing is that we are getting considerable discussion. Hopefully, everyone will feel free to share their opinions.
We have belonged to the club for only two years. We joined because of the LBC theme and as owners wanted to get to know other LBC owners. Interestingly we were encouraged to join by a non LBC owner and member. We thoroughly enjoy the friendships that we have developed and which continue to develop with the members, LBC owners and non-owners alike. We don't want to see membership restricted but we very definitiely want the original LBC theme to remain front and center, including the name. The club, as an LBC club, has gained recognition regionally and beyond and we do not want to see that lost.
In response to Jim and Lorraine's comment of "I think it would be fair to say that Lorraine and I have done as much as anyone to foster and support the activities and growth of FABAC since it's inception... "
Jim I believe you have misrepresented you involvement just a tad. You're levels of activity have been above the majority of the members both financially and in offerings of get togethers. All to the benefit of all who come out 1 time or 30 times a year.
Unfortunately I have not had the financial means nor the time to turn a spanner on my LBC get to her back on the road. So she sits beside my 1960 A40 MK1 (another car which is one of a handfull in North America) in my garage. And as for meetings - we missed a majority of this years due to work commitments.
Our absence has been noticed by a few members whom we run into at the market on the occasional Saturday.
In looking at the string of responses, we've gone from my voicing opinions surrendered to myself by members who have left to having a chip on my shoulder for doing so.
That unsigned entries and opinions have no validity.
Other individuals joined the conversation offering support that FABAC should remain in name for our established recognition and roots somewhat demand it North America wide.
That the people themselves are as much a part of whom we are. Which has been a constant theme justifiably so. We do not want to drive these individuals away.
But (and there is always a but) I look at the comments and see that there have not been a lot of comments posted here reflecting their expressions. The majority of comments have been from LBC owners...
So my earlier suggestion still stands and has anyone given it cnsideration?
"Formulate a combined group with combined interests... but with different badges.
FABAC Fredericton Area British Automobile Club remains intact for those who wish to set up on car shows and fields, city streets with their LBC's - you know Mini's, Not a Mini (AA), MGA through the last letter being used today, Triumphs, Morgans X 2, Lotus, Bugeyes, Sunbeams and any of the unique British cars wishing to pull up in the mix.
FAFAC Fredericton area Foriegn Automobile Club is created beside FABAC, as its newest sibling. On car show fields, city streets these jewels can be collectively parked together for on lookers to admire and dream about."
We increase visability, automotive awareness, remain as friends without alienating anyone, no one is seen as having chips, no one needs to be worried that not wishing to speak in favor of or against the majority up means acceptance.
"Most people spend more time and energy going around problems than in trying to solve them." Henry Ford
Do we not have enough energetic individuals drivign really nice and really fast imports to start the FAFAC badged club - sister to FABAC? Bring the 2 groups together head on and make something really big without demolishing somehing already in a solid foundation.
FOOD for thought.....
I love the Youg comment!!!!!
Pretty accurate.
So does anyone know what the engineers at YOGO originally used for shock absorbers?
Passangers!
Just trying to bring a smile to faces reading this touchy subject.
I am sadden to read all the controversy about our FABAC name change.
Our club president should intervene and end this controversy NOW.
David :
We are happy to read in your latest communication that,(Quote),"the issue has gone away as far as I am concerned". We take that to mean the club name will remain as FABAC!!!
I have to say however,I find your reasoning for even proposing a name change poorly thought through and quite irrational.Your apparent fear of confusion or false assumptions by some stranger walking by as to;IS IT BRITISH....OR SOMETHING ELSE;...pales in comparison to the turmoil and alienation people tell me they are feeling over this.
Identification of each vehicle is easily made by the WINDOW CARDS we have which give MAKE/MODEL/and YEAR and that should suffice for even the most CONFUSED of passers-by. Jim Bleakney and I use ours all the time and they are readily re-printed.Any member needing one can simply contact me with their information regardless of origin of manufacture and I will gladly supply it complete with lamination.
As far as the portable "SANDWICH BOARDS" are concerned I had them made 2 months ago and I am surprised you only learned of their existence a few days ago.May we take from your comment that all the controversy on the name change you instigated could have been avoided had you known this??? Curious...to say the least.
I and many others hope this brings to an end any further or future discussion on the topic of a name change while we continue to warmly welcome all who wish to travel with us.....Jim Woodford
I was surprised and delighted to have been extended an invitation to join this group/club, by Bob Earl, at the Thursday evening get-together Aug.28.
As some of you know, I usually show up in my 1940 Pontiac, but this year, I'm getting to know my 1986 Mercedes 560SL. I truly love the car, and would really enjoy being able to do some road running with like-minded roadster owners such as the members of FABAC, or whatever the 'official' title is/evolves into.
I've just 'joined', I think, by virtue of a user Id/password to this site's forum? I'm reading this on-going commentary with great interest. I would like to feel welcome here as a roadster owner and car nut too. I do understand the value of preserving the original title, and also the need to extend the envelope a bit to accomodate the vast array of non-British cars such as mine.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed being an active member of the NBAAC, and it was fun to tour with these folks in my streetrod. Lots of interesting looks and comments at the few shows I did attend, regarding the 'status' of my rod as an 'antique', which it clearly isn't. I'd expect the same quizzical interest at a mostly British meet with the SL. I wonder how the antique owners and MG folks feel at the Moncton Atlantic Nationals, nestled in among the streetrods and muscle cars?
This what's-in-a-name thing is a very common topic. I've followed debates raging among streetrodders, antique owners, and now here. Whatever the outcome, I hope the cameraderie of driving and working on our cars overpowers any rifts created by this hopeless quest to find a title that pleases everyone.
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